I don't see where you're getting that goldie, LL said they were banned not for simulated "ageplay" but for RL porn.
2 years, 6 months ago.
7 comments so far
The SL blog post only says "... ARD, which had captured images of two avatars, one that resembled an adult male and another that resembled a child, engaged in depicted sexual conduct" That is simulated age play. The paragraph ends with "both avatars were banned". There is no mention in the paragraph that those users had any RL porn (of any sort) on them. They even say they cannot find the supposed real photos in the asset DB. If there was real porn found they should have mentioned it in that paragraph discussing banning. As it is written it sounds like banning for ageplay avie photos.
again, goldie, you cannot go merely by what they say in that terse blog. You have to watch the entire German tabloid TV thing, and see what's at issue: they showed real porn to Robin, who was shocked. It doesn't matter that they didn't mention it in the blog. It's on the TV show itself. And she mentioned it in office hours. They may have wished to leave it deliberately ambigious in order to discourage what they can manage to discourage but also be held only to a strict definition.
They even say they cannot find the supposed real photos in the asset DB. If there was real porn found they should have mentioned it in that paragraph discussing banning.
You seem to have trouble grasping that they have their reasons for deliberately leaving it ambigious while there is an investigation pending. The tabloid TV makes the claim, they do not -- yet -- back it up, but they DID instantly ban the accounts. If it were only for non-RL porn, they couldn't have justified the banning. It's ambigious, deliberately so. In any event, go on speculating if you like, but eventually, they will connect up the dots and make it clear that a) they must pre-emptively act even when there is only an allegation and b) they must secure their servers from being shut down by RL authorities.
Getting angry at LL over the fact that in real life, there are media, communities, and law-enforcers that will wish to shut this down is pointless. Real life is real life.
Robin Linden: Let me make something clear here -- there was both age play and actual child porn involved in the incident with the German press
Robin Linden: They told us about the avatars, and they sprung the actual photos on me during the interview - a rather cheap trick if you ask me.
Robin Linden: So in the US we're not liable for content, but in Germany we are
Ryozu Kojima: Robin, Could you please clarify the exact reasons the 54 year old man and 27 year old woman were banned from Second Life? Were they German residents?
Robin Linden: They were banned because they were engaged in sexual behavior where one was playing a minor child.
Robin Linden: It's very unclear what the law is in the US, and our advisors think it's possible that it will be considered illegal in the US as well as in various EU countries
Robin Linden: Ryozu, some are making the case that it's a precursor to actual pedophilia. I'm sure that's arguable, but it is at least the concern of some.
Tiberious Neruda: exactly, so who is being harmed if two ADULTS , using whatever avs they care to wear, decide to engage in consentual sex-roleplay?
Robin Linden: Tiberius that's a question for the German authorities.
I've put together all her relevant comments so you can get the facts on this.
It is true, that SL does have to protect itself from being law suited out of existence. Those not involved in SL can misconstrue avie acts as RL acts so I was weighing the SL blog vs. the potential for the press to misconstrue. There are lots of things that are illegal in some parts of the world that go on in SL, so the implications of banning on assumption are a concern. However child porn, drugs and terrorism are the ones that are most likely to cause a shutdown, and the ones most likely to draw a strong (defensive) reaction from LL. I wouldn't want to be the one who had to call the shots here.
thanks for the transcript. Apparently the banning was for sexual ageplay - which is illegal in places in the EU even when it is "virtual depiction" - but there was RL stuff too which is a problem everywhere. I appreciate the extra info. International laws are something that will have to be dealt with (beyond ageplay). It will be interesting to see how that bridge gets crossed.
7 comments so far
The SL blog post only says "... ARD, which had captured images of two avatars, one that resembled an adult male and another that resembled a child, engaged in depicted sexual conduct" That is simulated age play. The paragraph ends with "both avatars were banned". There is no mention in the paragraph that those users had any RL porn (of any sort) on them. They even say they cannot find the supposed real photos in the asset DB. If there was real porn found they should have mentioned it in that paragraph discussing banning. As it is written it sounds like banning for ageplay avie photos.
2 years, 6 months ago by goldiekatsu
again, goldie, you cannot go merely by what they say in that terse blog. You have to watch the entire German tabloid TV thing, and see what's at issue: they showed real porn to Robin, who was shocked. It doesn't matter that they didn't mention it in the blog. It's on the TV show itself. And she mentioned it in office hours. They may have wished to leave it deliberately ambigious in order to discourage what they can manage to discourage but also be held only to a strict definition.
2 years, 6 months ago by Prok
They even say they cannot find the supposed real photos in the asset DB. If there was real porn found they should have mentioned it in that paragraph discussing banning.
You seem to have trouble grasping that they have their reasons for deliberately leaving it ambigious while there is an investigation pending. The tabloid TV makes the claim, they do not -- yet -- back it up, but they DID instantly ban the accounts. If it were only for non-RL porn, they couldn't have justified the banning. It's ambigious, deliberately so. In any event, go on speculating if you like, but eventually, they will connect up the dots and make it clear that a) they must pre-emptively act even when there is only an allegation and b) they must secure their servers from being shut down by RL authorities.
2 years, 6 months ago by Prok
Getting angry at LL over the fact that in real life, there are media, communities, and law-enforcers that will wish to shut this down is pointless. Real life is real life.
2 years, 6 months ago by Prok
Here's the office hour transcript: http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=12788&page=2
Robin Linden: Let me make something clear here -- there was both age play and actual child porn involved in the incident with the German press Robin Linden: They told us about the avatars, and they sprung the actual photos on me during the interview - a rather cheap trick if you ask me. Robin Linden: So in the US we're not liable for content, but in Germany we are Ryozu Kojima: Robin, Could you please clarify the exact reasons the 54 year old man and 27 year old woman were banned from Second Life? Were they German residents? Robin Linden: They were banned because they were engaged in sexual behavior where one was playing a minor child. Robin Linden: It's very unclear what the law is in the US, and our advisors think it's possible that it will be considered illegal in the US as well as in various EU countries Robin Linden: Ryozu, some are making the case that it's a precursor to actual pedophilia. I'm sure that's arguable, but it is at least the concern of some. Tiberious Neruda: exactly, so who is being harmed if two ADULTS , using whatever avs they care to wear, decide to engage in consentual sex-roleplay? Robin Linden: Tiberius that's a question for the German authorities.
I've put together all her relevant comments so you can get the facts on this.
2 years, 6 months ago by Prok
It is true, that SL does have to protect itself from being law suited out of existence. Those not involved in SL can misconstrue avie acts as RL acts so I was weighing the SL blog vs. the potential for the press to misconstrue. There are lots of things that are illegal in some parts of the world that go on in SL, so the implications of banning on assumption are a concern. However child porn, drugs and terrorism are the ones that are most likely to cause a shutdown, and the ones most likely to draw a strong (defensive) reaction from LL. I wouldn't want to be the one who had to call the shots here.
2 years, 6 months ago by goldiekatsu
thanks for the transcript. Apparently the banning was for sexual ageplay - which is illegal in places in the EU even when it is "virtual depiction" - but there was RL stuff too which is a problem everywhere. I appreciate the extra info. International laws are something that will have to be dealt with (beyond ageplay). It will be interesting to see how that bridge gets crossed.
2 years, 6 months ago by goldiekatsu